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http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17823272

Russell Brand calls for more compassion for drug users

Comedian Russell Brand has told MPs that taking drugs should not be seen as a "criminal or judicial matter" and users should be shown more compassion.

Appearing in Parliament, Mr Brand said drug addiction was primarily a "health matter" and decriminalising drugs could be "useful" in some areas.

But he said he opposed a "wacky free for all", saying his life had not been improved by extensive use.

The Home Affairs Committee is looking at government policy and sanctions.

Mr Brand told MPs about his fight against addiction, for which he has received successful treatment.

(continued)

I believe in capital punishment for all pushers, and some users. It would make people think twice about taking drugs if the consequences were as harsh and anti-social as the appalling behaviour these druggies descend into. With dual diagnosis I'd still do that, it'd make service users more sensible if they knew there were consequences to trying illegal alternatives to the shrinks bag.

[Deleted Member]

Spartikus Rex, on 24 April 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-17823272

Russell Brand calls for more compassion for drug users

Comedian Russell Brand has told MPs that taking drugs should not be seen as a "criminal or judicial matter" and users should be shown more compassion.

Appearing in Parliament, Mr Brand said drug addiction was primarily a "health matter" and decriminalising drugs could be "useful" in some areas.

But he said he opposed a "wacky free for all", saying his life had not been improved by extensive use.

The Home Affairs Committee is looking at government policy and sanctions.

Mr Brand told MPs about his fight against addiction, for which he has received successful treatment.

(continued)

I believe in capital punishment for all pushers, and some users. It would make people think twice about taking drugs if the consequences were as harsh and anti-social as the appalling behaviour these druggies descend into. With dual diagnosis I'd still do that, it'd make service users more sensible if they knew there were consequences to trying illegal alternatives to the shrinks bag.

well said sparty,id also av capital punishment for non funny so called comedians like russel brand,drugs are a lifestyle choice not an illness,this countrys NHS is clogged up with users.grrrrrrrrrrr wasters

[ghost]

Spartikus Rex, on 24 April 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I believe in capital punishment for all pushers, and some users. It would make people think twice about taking drugs if the consequences were as harsh and anti-social as the appalling behaviour these druggies descend into. With dual diagnosis I'd still do that, it'd make service users more sensible if they knew there were consequences to trying illegal alternatives to the shrinks bag.

After that maybe we can dispose of all those with mental health problems, their behaviour isn't societies fault either? I mean, you would expect a little more understanding and compassion from people who are themselves grossly misunderstood and prejudiced against because of it. Let me know what the view is like from your ivory tower wont you... Rex

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ghost, on 24 April 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

After that maybe we can dispose of all those with mental health problems, their behaviour isn't societies fault either? I mean, you would expect a little more understanding and compassion from people who are themselves grossly misunderstood and prejudiced against because of it. Let me know what the view is like from your ivory tower wont you... Rex

People with dual diagnosis are more likely to do the berserker and further prejudice for the vulnerable. Anyone with a dual diagnosis doesn't get into that scene without being streetwise and the idea of the vulnerable being 'tricked' into a life on drugs is not my experience and I have been there. I figure anyone streetwise enough to get into drugs is streetwise enough to avoid them once the sanctions are high enough. I have compassion for the genuine cases but the Brands of this world are furthering prejudice not reducing it. Yes, you can make a slippery slope argument but only in a unregulated society - and I believe in a regulated one.

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Spartikus Rex, on 24 April 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Anyone with a dual diagnosis doesn't get into that scene without being streetwise and the idea of the vulnerable being 'tricked' into a life on drugs is not my experience and I have been there. I figure anyone streetwise enough to get into drugs is streetwise enough to avoid them once the sanctions are high enough.

In quite a few cases drug abuse goes along side sexual abuse when children so 'being streetwise' isn't really appropriate. Another example is our brave young soldiers who go into war the strongest yet after experiencing trauma come back broken. Many of them with drug dependency issues, homeless, with dual diagnosis. I fear had you seen these things through my eyes your opinions may be different. I've seen people destroy themselves in a way that can only be from a deep self hate or wilful self destruction. In the long run by stigmatising dual diagnosis you are only going to deter those people from being honest or seeking care.

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Drugs are not the answer to these issues. Therapy and a supportive tolerant community might help but drugs will just undermine things. I guess we all have tragic stories but it is slightly insulting to those survivors of abuse or trauma who don't take drugs for you to use these issues as a 'get out of jail free card' for those who do, lets face it. You are trying in your way to be fair and I do appreciate that. Not like we're in good shape as a civilization?

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Another thing is that politicians and celebrities are role models and so if they are caught with drugs there should be zero tolerance. A public execution in some cases, like high office where drug taking could potentialy put millions of peoples lives at risk, would be acceptable in my books. So long as it took place after the nine o clock threshold a lethal injection for those snorting the powder for inspiration would serve as a warning to other gamblers with the health of the people. Less harrowing than much of the simulated violence earlier than the nine pm threshold.

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Spartikus Rex, on 24 April 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Drugs are not the answer to these issues. Therapy and a supportive tolerant community might help but drugs will just undermine things. I guess we all have tragic stories but it is slightly insulting to those survivors of abuse or trauma who don't take drugs for you to use these issues as a 'get out of jail free card' for those who do, lets face it. You are trying in your way to be fair and I do appreciate that. Not like we're in good shape as a civilization?

Its not insulting at all, my point is that we can link 'addiction' to 'trauma' in many cases. Your earlier summation that 'people who end up with addiction are streetwise' was narrow and insulting Spartacus. I was introduced to drugs at 9 years old, by a paedophile, was I being 'streetwise'? Many people who suffer trauma go on to have addiction problems. Did the drugs help? No, they made me worse. However a person who shows the will to have those choices obviously understood those choices to begin with. Many from deprived abusive backgrounds don't get 'exam' results or have a grounding in life that teaches them such basics that others learn and take for granted.

I really don't get the mindset that harps on about 'prejudice' all the time only to be prejudicial when it comes to people who are different from yourself. To me you are doing what you accuse society of doing. There is causality between childhood and adult trauma and addiction and in as much you would have a child victimised when young, alone, unwell and confused when older, then executed.

Also, lets be honest here. Violence, murder, aggression etc exists in society every weekend when most of the nation is drunk/high. All that chaos and suffering is caused by those without a mental health diagnosis so to just single out those with dual diagnosis seems amiss. Its as though your stamping your feet and screaming, what about me, that's not fair. In the same way you had a drink, had an heart attack, many children and abstinent adults also suffer heart attacks. Why should you have got hospital treatment when those people didn't drink etc? In my opinion its like Pandora's box Rex. Once you get into that way of thinking I wonder where it would end.

I really wish I would have known earlier in life, what I know now. Some people though are screwed up when young then fired out like a ball in a pin ball machine. Those people aren't aware of those 'choices' because of the chaos and suffering that surrounds them. Maybe instead of wishing death on others you should realise and be grateful of your own strengths, many people just don't have that understanding or knowledge.

I like you Rex, you know that, but this is one of those issues we will never see eye to eye on.

[Deleted Member]

give help to them that genuinly want it,not the ones who sell there methadone and buy heroin,the ones that rob pensioners ,my sister is a smackhead,she tore my family apart,grrrrr. drugs are illegal,if i go in a shop and steal is that ok because ive got mental health problems ? my solution would be give them all the drugs they want and let them self terminate,including my sister

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It is a divisive issue. I believe zero tolerance will work with the right societal dynamic. It wasn't long ago that 'junkies' were despised by all - and drugs were not a big issue. You can say capital punishemnet is wrong etc but since drug taking is a lifestyle choice in most all cases, like I say pushers should hang. Those who push drugs on kids should be given a public exectuion. I've no problem with genuine issue MH service users being given a chance to escape their habit if it can be established beyond reasonable doubt their habit was a result of grooming in childhood. The consequences of wasting that chance and returning to drugs however should remove any idea of lenience on the drugs issue itself.

[Deleted Member]

Spartikus Rex, on 25 April 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

It is a divisive issue. I believe zero tolerance will work with the right societal dynamic. It wasn't long ago that 'junkies' were despised by all - and drugs were not a big issue. You can say capital punishemnet is wrong etc but since drug taking is a lifestyle choice in most all cases, like I say pushers should hang. Those who push drugs on kids should be given a public exectuion. I've no problem with genuine issue MH service users being given a chance to escape their habit if it can be established beyond reasonable doubt their habit was a result of grooming in childhood. The consequences of wasting that chance and returning to drugs however should remove any idea of lenience on the drugs issue itself.

article on this subject on jeremy vine radio 2 next

[ghost]

Spartikus Rex, on 25 April 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

I've no problem with genuine issue MH service users being given a chance to escape their habit if it can be established beyond reasonable doubt their habit was a result of grooming in childhood. The consequences of wasting that chance and returning to drugs however should remove any idea of lenience on the drugs issue itself.

'Genuine service users'? As if suffering and need exist in a hierarchy of your own making. I beat my addiction problems on my own but never sought any help from the services. The reason I never sought that help was because I knew that in some quarters one dimensional thinking would be prevalent. When I was a child I couldn't understand why my mother couldn't just 'give up' smoking. Now I am older and smoke I understand. Those who have never experienced symptoms of mental health struggle to get it, some even deny it, yet those who have been through it 'understand'. Hitler once called us 'useless eaters, a drain on society and wanted us dead' and yet you advocate death on people who probably appear to you such a stain as we appeared to him.

You also seem not to understand that quite a few of those with dual diagnosis start off with mental health problems. In time that leads to self medication or escapism and without input from the services, family etc, those 'undiagnosed' end up in a very bad state. Whereas I wish those, not as fortunate as yourself in way of intervention, care and support, you wish them dead. There are just so many different backgrounds involved that to suppose to understand them all in such a basic way based upon only your experience bemuses me. Drugs and mental health don't mix, that much is true, but in severe cases the addiction is a mask for pre-existant mental health issues. Its just not the case that all these people take drugs=become unwell, though there are those that do. These issues are complex imo, for many its layer upon layer of trauma, illness, addiction etc and in quite a few cases a lack of input or support. Being able to access that support early is vital in those 'undiagnosed' cases but with such prejudice toward 'dual diagnosis'. I just think such opinions are counter-productive and undermine any idea that its really about care. I would care enough to learn about an issue long before I would care to wish death on others.

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If life is to have value and meaning then the use of drugs or even alchohol to solve its problems should be viewed as a moral evil. I thinking you are knowingly attempting to blur lines and invoke Godwins rule to prevent further debate. I do realise, if you have grown up in a drug using environement, that you would want to avoid any radical change. But I also think you can't avoid a little stockholm syndrome in 'protecting' the drug criminals in this way from a harsher judgement.

[ghost]

Spartikus Rex, on 25 April 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

If life is to have value and meaning then the use of drugs or even alchohol to solve its problems should be viewed as a moral evil. I thinking you are knowingly attempting to blur lines and invoke Godwins rule to prevent further debate. I do realise, if you have grown up in a drug using environement, that you would want to avoid any radical change. But I also think you can't avoid a little stockholm syndrome in 'protecting' the drug criminals in this way from a harsher judgement.

Not that 'godwins law' none-sense again. Your wishing people you consider inferior dead. Hitler used to think the same about us, its a fair parallel and talking geekoid doesn't change that. Drugs helped to destroy my life, why would I protect or defend such a thing? If anything I care enough to understand the complexities that little bit more because of experience not in-spite of it. I fear your lack of understanding or compassion would have you label me rather than see the truth of your stated opinions. If simplifying these issues allows you to be cruel then I can understand why you persist but in truth these issues aren't simple.

Quote

If life is to have value and meaning then the use of drugs or even alchohol to solve its problems should be viewed as a moral evil.

Do you not take drugs, paid for by the taxpayer, to solve your problems Rex?

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Despite your experiences you still don't understand you are more likely to get a real true nazi from a drug addled brain rather than a sober one. You are transfering onto me the shadow within yourself but I forgive you that. Where I take a stand is with the next generation and why should they suffer the same because of the lack of moral fibre in their so called elders.

[Deleted Member]

i know of drug users who get £200 per week in benefits,spend it all on heroin and crack cocaine usually within 24 hours,then go out stealin and begging.they used to drug test people on methadone and if you tested positive for opiates you lost it,now they dont even bother,crazy thing is people were buying clean urine and handing that in,now that is taking the piss

[ghost]

Spartikus Rex, on 25 April 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Despite your experiences you still don't understand you are more likely to get a real true nazi from a drug addled brain rather than a sober one. You are transfering onto me the shadow within yourself but I forgive you that. Where I take a stand is with the next generation and why should they suffer the same because of the lack of moral fibre in their so called elders.

And yet Hitler said

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"Ban Alcohol, Drugs, Cigarettes, Pornography & Prostitution"

Did Hitler not also talk about 'ridding future generations of degenerates, Jews and the genetically weak disabled etc' and said that past generations had lacked 'the moral fibre and strength to do so?'

Anyway, none of that matters really. If the only thing you can do with a differing opinion is to claim 'Stockholm syndrome' or view it as 'black and white' then there is really no debate to be had. Most the science and professionals in that field build the case for addiction and trauma as do the studies and experience. I do find it strange though that after beating life long drug issues you don't congratulate me. Rather, you choose to beat me over the head with it, that'll be your evident 'caring side' again

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ghost, on 25 April 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

And yet Hitler said

Did Hitler not also talk about 'ridding future generations of degenerates, Jews and the genetically weak disabled etc' and said that past generations had lacked 'the moral fibre and strength to do so?'

Anyway, none of that matters really. If the only thing you can do with a differing opinion is to claim 'Stockholm syndrome' or view it as 'black and white' then there is really no debate to be had. Most the science and professionals in that field build the case for addiction and trauma as do the studies and experience. I do find it strange though that after beating life long drug issues you don't congratulate me. Rather, you choose to beat me over the head with it, that'll be your evident 'caring side' again

Hitler said all kinds of things. Some of it was bound to be right even if most was wrong, because he rambled rather than pursued a direct line. Do we abandon all our Sea King rescue helicopters because the modern helicopter was a nazi idea? You are trying to conflate totally seperate issues and with a less well read intellect it would work. Not with me. My dad drove a ambulance in WW2...he didn't like war. I will congratulate you when you've done something heroic of similar magnitude. You can, if you try.

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Spartikus Rex, on 25 April 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

I will congratulate you when you've done something heroic of similar magnitude. You can, if you try.

Maybe not wishing total strangers dead could be a good start, very heroic is that

Besides that you have lost me

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ghost, on 25 April 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

Maybe not wishing total strangers dead could be a good start, very heroic is that

Besides that you have lost me

I don't wish anyone dead. I believe we can all change. Maybe you are wishing people dead by not changing anythng?