[Mark Crossley]

There are two high profile cases which I will identify below that have seen Christians put their jobs on the line for their faith, after a brief description has been given about the cases we will look at this more closer to home with the issue of those who suffer from Mental Health and if religion could assist like they claim.

Firstly; February 2009 saw an incident come into the public domain of a Christian NHS Nurse called Christine Petrie who talked about her faith and prayed with her patients was classified by her employer as “harassment or intimidation”.

Is this an appropriate comment from her employer?

Christine went on to say that “It is acceptable to offer spiritual support as part of the care when the patient asks for it”. Should she say its protocol even if I wanted to I am duty bound to decline this service to you in general and with regards to mental health patients?

How do you prove the patient asked for it or a practitioner would encourage or initiate they embraced prayer as part of the therapy process, surely its one persons word against another unless you have a track record of praying for patients of course?

Her particular employer commented further by saying “Nurses like Caroline do not have to set aside their faith, but personal beliefs and practices should be secondary to the needs and beliefs of the patient and the requirements of professional practice”. Are they right?

One final quote which the whole article can be viewed at: http://www.dailymail...Thomas-etc.html from the nurse who got suspended stated:
“It’s very difficult for me not to ask patients if they want me to pray for them when I feel prayer works for the sick. It’s a matter of coincidence to me. I should not have to choose between being a Christian and being a Nurse”.
Can prayer really help those who suffer from mental health be healed from the illness and should there be referrals made to those with a track record externally of healing the sick through various ministries via the NHS?

What if someone prays for a patient and prayer does not work but medication is more effective or vice versa?
What are your thoughts on this and perhaps they work hand in hand and as time goes by this will be something that will be introduced as part of the whole NHS, optional endorsed prayer for patients initiated at the start of the referral?

Secondly; A British Airways check-in employee Nadia Eweida who was banned from wearing a Christian cross at work is to take her case to the Court of Appeal week commencing 17th January 2010.

You may read the full story in further detail on the following website but type her name in and there will be many more links. Http://www.thisisloc..._case_to_begin/

Is wearing a crucifix an advertisement to generate a talking point be it of a common interest to talk about faith and could lead to prayer in the workplace and that the company involved was correct in taking the action they did?

How do you feel about other religions being allowed to wear garments may have preferential treatment and therefore someone cannot wear a Crucifix as fair workplace treatment when it comes to equality on the grounds of religion or are you more concerned about receiving treatment than what is being discussed in this article?

These two incidents of religion and treatment raises some interesting questions for us to debate, then, now and for the future whether religion should intervene or interfere with essential services to vulnerable people with mental health and wider within the public service industry especially on the issue of praying with patients relating to palliative treatment.

Should there be a voluntary code that states if a member of staff has a particular belief not necessarily Christian that their spiritual faith can assist in their work on the condition that the patient can sign a declaration at the start of the treatment; should such an incident occur they would or would not consent to pursuing this line or assistance rather than placed on the spot whether they want it or not verbally?

Should it be that if a patient requests spiritual support then the staff member treats the patient in their professional capacity and if appropriate and is in place a member of the relevant pastoral team would visit them as a more formal form of protocol again at the patients request?

Should it be that you are paid to do a job and you can pray for a person silently but it’s not visual respecting the wishes of the hospital, other patients and is undertaken discreetly?

Should mental health organisations have a religion policy, I personally have never seen one nor can I find one online which states their policy and perhaps this would assist so there are very clear guidelines regarding the working practice of religion at work rather than looking at general things on the internet?

There is a website http://www.religionlaw.co.uk which gives a good synopsis of the various laws that relate to religion in different contexts and maybe worth a read educating yourself what laws are in place that relate to this subject matter.

However organisations need specific religious policies and prayer is one aspect that needs to be addressed as well as other issues like religious hatred, provision of prayer rooms or time off to pray but actually praying directly for patients there seems to be a lack of clarification. Do you agree or disagree?

How do you know that the patient shares the same beliefs as the employee if this is not discussed taking up invaluable treatment time in whatever capacity and like her employer says is the secondary issue although she would believe her faith gave her a job and should witness to the sick; how this correlates in practise further guidelines need to be issued I feel from the Department of Health?

Should employees be given a leaflet upon induction and managers have training on this in their roles on the issue of religion at work and is there a niche requirement for this?

The general stance with exceptional circumstances should be faith and work are separate issues and never should the two shall meet unless you are in the capacity of a paid employee with spiritual responsibilities, the law requires us to use things in proportion, be reasonable & appropriate and it’s the practicalities and the outworking of legislation as above that is key to such things being successful and making adequate adjustments in accordance with the jurisdiction of the law and the work place. This is a tricky subject to contest with.

Be careful if you do what they do you still have to work with other colleagues and if people see general staff praying for patients in an unofficial capacity this could alienate you from other staff & patients alike, they may keep a distance from you and at what price that comes.

Should it then impacts on patient care all because you impose your spiritual beliefs on a patient this tension maybe evident and people do and will pick up on it should be carefully weighed up before praying unless senior management have given their approval after seeking it.
By all means on an equal opportunities form state you practice whatever religion but tread carefully.

[Universal Credit]

Given religious mania and occasional religion motivated violence is a significant part of florid pyschosis quite often then religion should be kept out of the ward?

[Universal Credit]

Also I've seen these people on the ward who've found 'jesus' and they give all their things away. People are very vulnerable on the ward and religion can easily leave people homeless by giving away their rent money to the church or the nearest passing stranger. Still you never see a poor bishop do you?

[ramboself]

I recently had a social worker tel me to find god and i resented it, remember one support worker saying the same i said in philip k dicks semi autobiography the cpn tells hom to find god he thinks "Should i tell him my theories about god, no i don't want to be sectioned again" the whole book is about his search for god

It's all about power and the care been conditional on you embracing the religion, if you don't the care disapears and thats wrong

On the other hand way things are going religions will be the only people to provide

[manic666]

its a pattern for mental illness, in some people. . when first ill you drink an mabye take wrekky drugs,, then you try theropy, then meds, if all fails they go to last resort god. Its the same in prison, it says in the bible ( repent an be welcome into the kingdom of heaven) so 1 hour before you fry in there elecrtic chair you repent. If it gives comfort so be, it but dont push it on other,s just because you lost all your friend,s through boreing them stupid

[ramboself]

thats what i resent religious people pushing it on people, on the other hand people like dworkins and his militant atheists are much the same

[Universal Credit]

ramboself, on 19 February 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

thats what i resent religious people pushing it on people, on the other hand people like dworkins and his militant atheists are much the same

I've tried various beliefs and unbeliefs have come to the conclusion it is all tosh. People can go to their grave believing what they want...they've no more clue than a goldfish how they got here or where they are going next. Religion is social control and profiteering of peoples death anxiety. Atheism is what happens when the bishops are too fat and the people are starving. It is all tosh. And people follow the guy with the biggest lunch for them.

[toffee]

I'm perfectly happy for psychaitric staff to pray for me. I wish they would do that rather than section me. Personally I prefer having 'prayer' pushed on me than the medical model. At least prayer can be done from a distance and doesn't need me locked up for 6 months.

[Universal Credit]

Prayer might even work for the benefit cuts. Instead of cutting benefits the government could pray for us spending the benefits to keep the economy moving? They seem to be doing a lot of praying about the rich paying their taxes and stuff afterall?

[manic666]

we all no the biggest starter of war,s, lets start with the crusades

[Universal Credit]

manic666, on 20 February 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

we all no the biggest starter of war,s, lets start with the crusades

[ramboself]

I;ve got nothing against prayer the thing is when help is offered under the reason they're out to convert you to the religion which is how a lot of instutional religion finds it's converts

Remember when my dad died some women friend suggested a christian hepline, if i had phoned somewhere along the line help would be conditional on me converting

[Universal Credit]

If religions where allowed on the wards then all religions would need to be included and the result from that would make look the middle east look like a tea party. Especially how people with religious mania are often fundy literalists with their favourite works of fiction.

[mias]

manic666, on 19 February 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

its a pattern for mental illness, in some people. . when first ill you drink an maybe take weekly drugs,, then you try theropy, then meds, if all fails they go to last resort god. Its the same in prison, it says in the bible ( repent an be welcome into the kingdom of heaven) so 1 hour before you fry in there elecrtic chair you repent. If it gives comfort so be, it but dont push it on other,s just because you lost all your friend,s through boreing them stupid

Mmm, think you have just about described my brothers life, not nec in that exact order but pretty damn close..

[scottg]

I dont think religion of any type should be forced upon anybody, vulnerable or not. I personally think that people in hospital or care homes should have care plans which include a section for spiritual beliefs, and the opportunity to explore these in a way that they want to IF they want to. At times I have received visits from certain ministers at my request and have found prayer very helpful at times. It is an individuals choice. Totally agree that most organised religion was designed to sudbue the masses by fear, and that religion has been the cause of so many wars and genocide its mind boggling.. If anyone believes that God or Allah or whatever they call them wants them to kill others in their name then they are the mad ones.

[CeeBee]

If someone offered to pray for me I would politely decline, but I would not take any offence provided they did not exert undue pressure or press the matter further.

I do think any rules that are decided upon need to be applied equally across the board, for example if it is acceptable for a muslim to wear the hijab then it should also be acceptable for a christian to wear a cross etc. unless there is a very serious health and safety or similar reason why this is not possible.

The whole topic can be a bit of a minefield to be honest. It is a delicate balancing act of one group's right to freedom of speech and religious expression against another's, coupled with trying to constantly draw a line between simply being offended by another's words and being a victim of harrassment or discrimination.

Much like Mark Crossley I am left with more questions than answers on the subject

[manic666]

In what ever hospital i go in, ie mental or physical , any god squad patrol is shunned ulless the dieing say ok give me the last rights. there something about some one telling you that god is great when they are 25 an about to die of cancer, an leave 3 kids an a wife struggeling . Some recieve a sever mouthfull of abuse, an rightly so. Invadeing someones personal space , in there last moments. People get mad an why not , why is god takeing a 25 year old with a wife an three kids, i would tell them to shove it.