[Fran]

Hi
I’m looking for advice on practical ways to talk to someone with deluded and confused thoughts and paranoia. I am actually just looking for advice – any will do!! :-)

My younger brother only just 18 was sectioned to the mental health unit at the hospital this week. He has not been ok for the last 18 months and really psychotic for the last 6 months. He declined very rapidly. He has not yet had a formal diagnosis yet, he has only been in hospital for 4 days but his behaviour is agreed to be psychotic.

I am so sad. It is such a horrendous thing to watch. He is refusing to talk to my parents. I am his only sibling and his only support (aside from medical). I know he is in the right place and only place he could be to get help but I don’t yet know how to deal with him. He is medicated but doesn’t think there is anything wrong with him. He is a long long way off understanding anything about his condition.

I am getting counselling which helps but I still need more answers. My friends don’t know what to do and are not really being very supportive. I am talking to my parents and they are supporting me but they are devastated too.

The brother I knew seems to have gone. He once was kind, sweet, gentle, creative and had a wonderful sense of humour and lots of friends. He is now angry, confused, he lies, steals, he is so serious and has no humour or ‘lightness’, he is very isolated and has lost all his friends, he thinks the police are after him (they are now because he keeps stealing), he thinks people are following him, he has different ‘moods’/ persona, the worst being he thinks he is a ‘gangster’.

I don’t know what to say to him when he is being psychotic / deluded. He wants me to collude with him and “get where he’s coming from”, “I just don’t understand his world”. The problem is I don’t understand and I don’t get it. He isn’t making sense. He asks me why he is being held and can’t go home. How do you help someone understand they are sick? I am currently visiting him every day in the hospital and it is really hard. What do you say to someone who is being 'manic'?

I jump between wanting to help/rescue him and wanting to run in the opposite direction. I know I can’t give up on him. I know early intervention helps. But I am tired. This is only week one of formally knowing he has an illness but my mother, father and I have known for some time and it is so exhausting. I am overcome with grief and sadness for him and my family. It has already affected my relationship with all of my close girlfriends and coming close to affecting the relationship with my partner.

I can’t just stop helping him. This seems to be the only advise people who don’t understand can give. I know it is important to look after myself but I can’t not help him, there isn’t anyone else who will.

I am in Brisbane, Australia and I need to know more about support options and what is out there. This is the best site I have found and would love to hear any advice people can offer.

Thank you – Sorry to have gone on a bit it is nice to get it off my chest.
Fran

[mld]

Hi Fran,

Wow, Brisbane! That's a long way from the UK!! I have been to Sydney and Perth though.

Anyway, your little brother seems to be in the best place for the moment. I know that when I am sick I get delusions and paranoia, but don't realise it. It is only when the medication starts kicking in that I eventually come to terms with my illness. Other people don't always make it, they don't come to terms with their illness, or don't for a long time. I have a frend who has been taking antipsychotics for three years off and on and still wonders why he's taking them. We all know when he has stopped them as he goes off into his own world, and he assumes we know everything there is to know in it (if that makes sense).

Visiting every day must be hard. My husband has visited me almost everyday when I was in hospital, but there were days when even he couldn't make it as he had work and other things to do. Don't wear yourself out. It might be a long haul, this time in hospital.

Anyway, welcome to the site. I will imagine your posts being spoken with an Aussie accent

M.

[mias]

lol mld. That is a good idea. I too will imagine her posts in an Australian accent. Hey Fran, you will have to imagine us with our English accents!


"I can’t just stop helping him. "

No, of course you can't and your friends and anyone that suggest that you don't really do not know what it is like to love a sibling or someone so much. But as mld says above, doing it every single day may prove a bit difficult as you will get behind on other things and relationships. you will need some nice normal life to keep you going when you get home as you will not be able to live this 24/7 if you do not get respite you won't be any help to anyone.

The story you mention re your brother is starting to read in a very familiar way to me. I know there are other siblings on here and people like mld that know about these things first hand. I am pleased you say that your brother is getting help and is in hospital, that probably is the safest place for him right now, not being in hospital did not save my brother.

As for what to say. I don't think you can argue his delusional thoughts, to argue just won't help anyone but I guess if they are very frightening thoughts to him you do not want to agree with them and reinforce them. Maybe to try and reassure him that he will be alright and that you will be there to look out for him, things like that.

You are lucky to have found this forum for support, learn what you can. Ask for advice and ask questions from the m/h staff and professionals. I doubt it will be easy but you will get there I am sure.

Keep in touch.

[sarah jane]

he is very isolated and has lost all his friends, he thinks the police are after him (they are now because he keeps stealing), he thinks people are following him
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they are targeted for misdemeanor which starts in the shops and then other roomers are spread by which the the police investigator moves in over the road and conducts an investigation by having you followed and plants roomers for investigation purposes, as they may have done this or that, because of this you are paranoid people are talking about you which makes you become unwell and you may end up loseing your job or jobs and endup having mental breakdown which leads you into contact with the local mental health team and social worker abuses her position and misuses information with police they don’t arrest you but u get sent to early intervention for extra support, they use this to investigate you for three years.

This may explain some of which your brother is experiencing!


http://www.rethink.o...stopping-crime/

[keeping positive]

Hi Fran

I'm so sorry to hear of the problems you are experiencing, I have a similar situation but with my partner, the good thing is your brother is being medicated and is in the best place, even if it doesn't seem so at the moment, eventually your brother will come round with the right type of treatment and help and will see that by being in hospital was the best choice, at the moment he won't believe there is anything wrong with him because it's all too real for him, my partner often tells me I am not of his world and never can be, how true! he just doesn't understand why. You see, he thinks he is the son of god, occasionally he tells me quite forcefully that he is god and he is blessed because he walks amongst the ungodly.

I can't give much in the way of advice as each and every person is different, I handle my partner by not agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, most times if you look carefully enough he's not actually talking to me anyway, he's talking at me.

All you can do really is be there for him and give him as much support as possible, always tell him you love him and care, it will be difficult especially with his paranoia but I believe as long as he can trust one person there is hope. Obviously this is from my own experience and it may be very different for you.

Look after yourself and then your brother, this website is absolutely fantastic and has helped me and I'm sure others immensely. Without this site I doubt very much if I would have been able to cope as well as I have been.

[sarah jane]

keeping positive, on 11 December 2011 - 06:06 PM, said:

Hi Fran

I'm so sorry to hear of the problems you are experiencing, I have a similar situation but with my partner, the good thing is your brother is being medicated and is in the best place, even if it doesn't seem so at the moment, eventually your brother will come round with the right type of treatment and help and will see that by being in hospital was the best choice, at the moment he won't believe there is anything wrong with him because it's all too real for him, my partner often tells me I am not of his world and never can be, how true! he just doesn't understand why. You see, he thinks he is the son of god, occasionally he tells me quite forcefully that he is god and he is blessed because he walks amongst the ungodly.

I can't give much in the way of advice as each and every person is different, I handle my partner by not agreeing or disagreeing with what he says, most times if you look carefully enough he's not actually talking to me anyway, he's talking at me.

All you can do really is be there for him and give him as much support as possible, always tell him you love him and care, it will be difficult especially with his paranoia but I believe as long as he can trust one person there is hope. Obviously this is from my own experience and it may be very different for you.

Look after yourself and then your brother, this website is absolutely fantastic and has helped me and I'm sure others immensely. Without this site I doubt very much if I would have been able to cope as well as I have been.

the good thing is your brother is being medicated and is in the best place, even if it doesn't seem so at the moment, eventually your brother will come round with the right type of treatment
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The medication doesn’t make little difference - because he is "telling the truth" and the problem is there is little choice in therapy, the medication therefore is given in hope of family members coming to deal with the situation as it stands, of course they are not told that I talk from experience! It just learning to live with the situation that others are talking about you and that you are followed is problem!!!

[keeping positive]

[The medication doesn’t make little difference - because he is "telling the truth" and the problem is there is little choice in therapy, the medication therefore is given in hope of family members coming to deal with the situation as it stands, of course they are not told that I talk from experience! It just learning to live with the situation that others are talking about you and that you are followed is problem!!!
[/quote]

I absolutely agree that person who is going through this "is telling the truth" I wouldn't for minute say they weren't, I never tell my partner he's talking rubbish or that what he sees and hears is not there, because for him it is and for him it is happening.

I've been in the same room and he's heard voices and seen things that no one else can, this doesn't mean they are not real to him, beleive me I've learned this the hard way.

Obviously I don't want to upset anyone, I can only say things from my own experience, I'm not a service user just an outsider looking in and trying to do the very best possible.

[Olivia - Rethink]

Hi Fran,

I'm glad to see you have found us all the way from Australia!

It sounds like your brother really needed the help he is getting at the moment, and it's wonderful he has your support. I know that people will always tell you to look after yourself too, and that is something that it will take time to learn - but try to keep it in mind if you can.

We have got a video for siblings who have a brother or sister experiencing psychosis which you might find useful:


This looks at how to talk to someone and support someone when they are experiencing delusions, disordered thought and paranoia and what course their treatment and recovery can take.

We also have information on the website on Dealing with difficult thoughts and behaviours which you might find useful and talks about some of the ideas Mias mentioned before.

It's great to see you on our forum and I hope to continue to see you here - and we have lots of information on the siblings website (www.rethink.org/siblings) - though also if you want to find support in Australia, there is a great project called Siblings Australia (www.siblingsaustralia.org.au/ which you might like to look into too.

I know it must be hard right now, wondering what course things will take for your brother, but it does sound like he is now getting the help that he needs.

How are things going for you?

Best wishes,

Olivia

[mias]

I hope Fran sees these replies and especially watches the video above. I just have and it is so informative. It would have helped us no end.

Actually, to just hear her talking and explaining about the psychosis has really upset me. I am surprised at how such a thing could effect me so easily after all this time. I guess sometimes it is all too real.

Very very good YouTube. Well done Rethink.

[keeping positive]

Olivia - Rethink, on 13 December 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

We have got a video for siblings who have a brother or sister experiencing psychosis which you might find useful:

Hi, I can't see this video on my PC, restrictions at work etc, I could view it on my phone though but I don't know what to look for, can you help please? I would really like to see this.

Thanks,

[Olivia - Rethink]

Hi Keeping Positive,

If you enter "rethink1972 psychosis" into the search bar on Youtube it should come up.

Let me know if you have any trouble viewing it from there.

Olivia

[Olivia - Rethink]

mias, on 13 December 2011 - 03:50 PM, said:

I hope Fran sees these replies and especially watches the video above. I just have and it is so informative. It would have helped us no end.

Actually, to just hear her talking and explaining about the psychosis has really upset me. I am surprised at how such a thing could effect me so easily after all this time. I guess sometimes it is all too real.

Very very good YouTube. Well done Rethink.

Thanks Mias and I'm sorry that it was upsetting, though good to hear that you feel it would have helped. I wish that there had been something for you at that time.

Olivia

[Fran]

Thank all so much!! It has been a very hard week but I'm starting to feel a lot better. This site is fantastic. Thank you for your advice and thank you olivia for the video. My brother believes he is famous. It is scary and generally very overwhelming but getting more information is helping.

I am trying to look after myself too. I went to a flash mob on the weekend for some light fun relief. About 40 people blew bubbles in the main shopping mall in the city. A lot of
fun!

I feel I should say things like g'day mate, but to be honest I actually have a fairly soft Aussie accent as my grandmother is English. But the house I grew up in did have kangaroos in the garden :-)

My brother is a little less manic the meds

[Fran]

Sorry I hit post and it won't let me edit.

The meds are helping and the doctors are good. I am hopeful.

Thank again everyone for your input it is so wonderful to not feel alone.

It has been even harder because my brother has created delusions about my mum and dad and he is changing his memories of his childhood. He is very angry at my parents and they are such lovely kind people. My dad keeps saying why is he so angry at me?. We wish he thought aliens were after him or something.

Hopefully this week will be better.

Talk soon
Fran

[mias]

Fran, on 13 December 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

Thank all so much!! It has been a very hard week but I'm starting to feel a lot better. This site is fantastic. Thank you for your advice and thank you olivia for the video. My brother believes he is famous. It is scary and generally very overwhelming but getting more information is helping.

I am trying to look after myself too. I went to a flash mob on the weekend for some light fun relief. About 40 people blew bubbles in the main shopping mall in the city. A lot of
fun!

I feel I should say things like g'day mate, but to be honest I actually have a fairly soft Aussie accent as my grandmother is English. But the house I grew up in did have kangaroos in the garden :-)

My brother is a little less manic the meds

Hey, I am really pleased you came back on.

Good that things are a bit better, I can only imagine how hard it is for you and your parents. I have not read about someone changing their memory of their childhood before. I learn more all the time from the people I meet on this forum.

That flash mob sounds 'pretty', I love bubbles anyway so loads altogether must have been amazing. Hope you got some great photos.

Kangaroos in the garden! What? how cute is that.

Take care.

Hope next time you post here things will be even better for you.

[sweetpea]

Fran, on 13 December 2011 - 09:39 PM, said:

It has been even harder because my brother has created delusions about my mum and dad and he is changing his memories of his childhood. He is very angry at my parents and they are such lovely kind people. My dad keeps saying why is he so angry at me?. We wish he thought aliens were after him or something.

Hi Fran, I know how hard that is, having your brother turn against your parents - my brother has done the same over the years. He talks about how awful they've been to him and blames them for his situation - and the fact they haven't done more to help him. When in reality, he had the same loving, stable upbringing as me and my parents have done everything they possibly could to help him get well.

I think with my brother it's to do with him lashing out at the people who are closest to him - he's angry at his situation (and I don't blame him for that) but it's easier for him to blame my parents than to accept responsibility himself, or recognise that it's the illness that is making him feel like that. I wonder if there's a similar thing going on for your brother? It's really hard though to see your parents suffering too isn't it. And I know my dad in particular finds it really hard and takes what my brother says to heart. Me and my mum are better are rationalising it and reminding ourselves that it's not him, it's his illness that makes him say those things.

Don't know if that helps at all?

I'm glad to hear the meds are making things a bit better for your brother - and that you're finding comfort from this site. I only found it a few weeks ago myself and it's been such a support to me while my brother's been in hospital.

Remember to keep taking care of yourself - it can be easy to get overwhelmed with all this and let it consume you.

Hope to see you more on the forum anyway and let us know how it's all going.

[mld]

Hi Fran,

Just wanted to say a hello and say that my nephew gets at both of his parents when he is unwell, but at the moment he is well and looking forward to Christmas dinner at his mum's. In the past it has been very embarrassing having him talk to me and not to my sister. Fortunately she sees it as illness. Her husband, his step-dad, doesn't, can't see it that way and I'm glad they haven't got to fighting, but I think that it's been close.

Take care,

M.

[keeping positive]

sweetpea, on 14 December 2011 - 10:58 AM, said:

I think with my brother it's to do with him lashing out at the people who are closest to him - he's angry at his situation (and I don't blame him for that) but it's easier for him to blame my parents than to accept responsibility himself, or recognise that it's the illness that is making him feel like that. I wonder if there's a similar thing going on for your brother? It's really hard though to see your parents suffering too isn't it. And I know my dad in particular finds it really hard and takes what my brother says to heart. Me and my mum are better are rationalising it and reminding ourselves that it's not him, it's his illness that makes him say those things.

How absolutely right you are Sweetpea, I think those who are not suffering from psychosis have to TRY and remember it's the illness talking and not the real person underneath, although it is very hard sometimes to do this. Apparently I am the sole reason my partners life has turned out the way it has, even though all his choices were made by him. I ruined his life somedays and are the best thing in it others

My partner spent all of Tuesday evening from 9.30pm Tuesday night until 6.30am Wednesday telling me what an awful mother I was and how I had cheated on him with not one, not two but three of his friends, he also said some really sick and disgusting things which basically add up to incest, I won't go into that here though, none of these things have ever happened! Of course I was then up at 7.00am to go to work, 36 hours with no sleep!

Got home last night and he was full of apologies and couldn't do enough for me, kept apologising etc, he says today that he knows he was being mean and cruel but really thought he had been talking for one hour and no more and that he can't remember anything of what he said to me. The one thing he does tell me regularly though is "I'm not going mad you know, this is god talking to me" You see he thinks he is the son of god, sometimes he even thinks he is god, as he did on Tuesday/Wednesday.

The saddest part in all this is I have started to harden up so he can't hurt me anymore when he keeps on with his false accusations, this is leading me to think sometimes I don't love him anymore, then something will happen and I realise that I do, it must be emotions playing havoc with me.

Fran, Sweetpea, I'm really pleased things are starting to work out for you both and your families and I really sincerely hope that both your siblings come out of hospital and keep up with the meds and therapies etc.

Good luck to you both.

[sweetpea]

keeping positive, on 14 December 2011 - 03:16 PM, said:

How absolutely right you are Sweetpea, I think those who are not suffering from psychosis have to TRY and remember it's the illness talking and not the real person underneath, although it is very hard sometimes to do this. Apparently I am the sole reason my partners life has turned out the way it has, even though all his choices were made by him. I ruined his life somedays and are the best thing in it others

My partner spent all of Tuesday evening from 9.30pm Tuesday night until 6.30am Wednesday telling me what an awful mother I was and how I had cheated on him with not one, not two but three of his friends, he also said some really sick and disgusting things which basically add up to incest, I won't go into that here though, none of these things have ever happened! Of course I was then up at 7.00am to go to work, 36 hours with no sleep!

Got home last night and he was full of apologies and couldn't do enough for me, kept apologising etc, he says today that he knows he was being mean and cruel but really thought he had been talking for one hour and no more and that he can't remember anything of what he said to me. The one thing he does tell me regularly though is "I'm not going mad you know, this is god talking to me" You see he thinks he is the son of god, sometimes he even thinks he is god, as he did on Tuesday/Wednesday.

The saddest part in all this is I have started to harden up so he can't hurt me anymore when he keeps on with his false accusations, this is leading me to think sometimes I don't love him anymore, then something will happen and I realise that I do, it must be emotions playing havoc with me.

Fran, Sweetpea, I'm really pleased things are starting to work out for you both and your families and I really sincerely hope that both your siblings come out of hospital and keep up with the meds and therapies etc.

Good luck to you both.

kp, yours sounds like such a hard situation. I find being a sibling to someone with mental illness hard too, but I don't have to face it every day as I don't live with my brother. I'm not surprised you feel you have started to harden up. I think that's probably a natural self preservation mechanism to stop yourself being so hurt by the things being said to you.

I know we have to remind ourselves that it's the illness talking and not the person, but that doesn't necessarily cancel out how much it hurts at the time does it. When my brother has said horrible things to me, it still hurts in that moment, just as much as if he was saying it when he was thinking straight. And it's only after the event, when my emotions have subsided, and my rational thoughts have kicked back in, that I can remind myself it's not him, and he doesn't mean what he's saying.

I have also felt sometimes that I don't love my brother - that I hate him in fact - but when I've calmed down about whatever it is he's upset me about, I know that he's still my brother, and I do love him no matter how difficult he is to be around sometimes.

I hope you manage to get some support soon kp - any progress with that?

Am sending you a big hug. Keep in touch.

[keeping positive]

You know, it's this website and the people on it that have kept me going all these months and keep me smiling. The people are all so really lovely.

Your message is as always beautiful and I thank you for your kind words.

It's true that at the time it hurts real bad then afterwards when you calm down you see things in a different light. Because of this, I try not to respond or retaliate with horrible words myself, there is much damage which can be inflicted on a person in anger.

I'm going to have a look at the video tonight on my way home to see if this will help me further with how to respond and what to do.

At the moment my only source of support is from this website, as my partner does not believe he has a problem and that he is ok he would go absolutely crazy if he even found out about this site. Obtaining support from anywhere else would be really hard at the moment.

I'll keep battling on though, you have to don't you? Anyway I have a beautiful little girl and she keeps me going through the hard times, and it's nearly Christmas and I am so looking forward to that.

I hope you have a lovely peaceful evening what your plans are.

Take care