[sweetpea]

Ever have one of those conversations when you feel like someone has punched you in the stomach? That's what it felt like tonight after I got off the phone to my brother. He said some really nasty things to me, but I feel lIke i handed the conversation all wrong. He's been in a psychiatric hospital for just less than a week and I challenged what he was saying, when I should have just held my tongue.

It was just so infuriating to listen to him, he just kept going on and on and on saying there was nothing wrong with him mentally and he just had physical problems (he does have some injuries which he got just before or during his recent psychotic episode, which he's also being treated for). But he completely denies there is anything wrong with him psychologically at all. He was saying he shouldn't be there, and he's a victim in all this and everyone's trying to convince him he has m/h problems when he doesn't.

And I just couldn't handle it. I've been wanting to say to him for days 'why do you think you're in a psychiatric hospital then?'. And i just couldn't hold it in any longer. So I said it. And he flipped out, like totally flipped. He said if I think he has mental health problems, if that's what I genuinely think, then he doesn't want anything to do with me and he's going to say to the doctors that he doesn't want to take my calls anymore. He accused me of taking sides (with my parents, with the mental health team I'm not sure exactly who with). And then he said 'if you were my brother (ie. if I was male), I would kick the s**t out of you now. And then he hung up on me.

I know it's because he's mentally unwell that he spoke to me like this. And I'm trying to remind myself of that. But it's so so hard to hear your brother say that to you.

I feel like I handed it all completely wrong. I feel like I've made it all a lot worse.

[firemonkey]

Please dont beat yourself up.

http://leapinstitute.org/

[Katrina]

sweetpea, he loves you he is just hurting. he does not mean what he said i promise you. what a journey we must go through for those we love

[mias]

Just read FM's link above. Very good advice imo.

[sweetpea]

Thanks, I've ordered a copy of the book.

[mias]

Sorry for short quic reply. Off o work sweetpea hope you are alright? x

[sweetpea]

mias, on 03 December 2011 - 08:33 AM, said:

Sorry for short quic reply. Off o work sweetpea hope you are alright? x

I'll be ok mias, thanks for checking. Trying not to be too 'woe is me' about it - and focus on what I can do to respond to him differently next time. Going to speak to the nurses now and update them and see how he was after my call.

That book looks like it could be really useful - thanks for the recommendation, firemonkey.

Thanks for your message too, Katrina. Hope you're doing ok.

[Universal Credit]

Being in denial about serious mental health episodes is very common, I've come to understand, some claiming it is all spiritual others that it ain't there at all. Been there, lived it and moved on to some realism about the condition with reality testing and avoiding stressors a priority. For those times when lucidity is high shortly after a pyschotic relapse things can be especially problematic as the mind blanks out the pyschotic episode - it is very good at editing. That's why it is pointless to argue the case, there is no accurate recollection about in the sufferers mind. On another strand it seems it will be all too easy to pass a half hour medical as fully fit and ready for work even when there is a genuine history of sporadic relapse. This will not only be putting service users in danger via sanctions and difficulty with a consistant schedule/form of behaviour but through the potential stressors could trigger a workplace/ment relapse which would be placing the public in danger. It is easy to make things worse and very difficult to maintain some level of stablity which is why it is classed as a serious condition I guess? Every generation appears to need to learn this anew despite it being common knowledge in mental health circles...

[sweetpea]

Spartikus Rex, on 03 December 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

For those times when lucidity is high shortly after a pyschotic relapse things can be especially problematic as the mind blanks out the pyschotic episode - it is very good at editing. That's why it is pointless to argue the case, there is no accurate recollection about in the sufferers mind.

I wonder if he will get more awareness about what happened when his meds start to take more effect? I know it was pointless trying to discuss the situation rationally with him, as he believes he does not have any m/h issues, and whatever I say will not change his mind.

It does help to know that he's not trying to be difficult, he genuinely can't remember the episode and genuinely believes he's just there for physical injuries.

I want to learn more about to respond to him when he's in denial - am hoping the book firemonkey recommended will be useful. It looks like it's up to the family members to read around the subject and dig to get the info they need. I wish there was a manual that told us how to deal with this in the best way. Feel like we have to use a 'trial and error' approach at the moment.

Spartikus Rex, on 03 December 2011 - 09:27 AM, said:

Been there, lived it and moved on to some realism about the condition with reality testing and avoiding stressors a priority.

Spartikus - am interested to know how you moved on in your thinking about the condition? What do you mean by reality testing?

Thanks for sharing your insights with me, I really appreciate it.

[firemonkey]

Quote

reality testing


in psychiatry and psychology, the ego function by which the objective or real world and one's subjectively sensed relationship to it are evaluated and appreciated; the ability to distinguish internal distortion and fantasy from accurate representation of external events.

http://dictionary.we...reality-testing

[Universal Credit]

This link appears to explain it well, better than I could. Really it's just asking questions, especially when things seem askew in some way. What everyone should do really, but especially if you have a mind that runs away with itself too much on occasion?

http://wagblog.wordp...e-reality-test/

[sweetpea]

Thanks both, useful stuff to me to read there. That blog looks particularly good.

Will have a proper look later - just off out to have a fry up and take my mind off things for a while.

Hope you both have good days.

[KLS]

Hi Sweetpea,

That sounds like a really difficult situation, hope things get a bit easier for you in the next few weeks.

[firemonkey]

http://vimeo.com/13277920


This workshop explains anosognosia (lack of insight) as it applies to severe mental illness.

http://www.treatment...lem/anosognosia

Various articles on anosognosia(lack of insight)

[Universal Credit]

"Impaired or lack awareness of illness - a neurological syndrome called anosognosia - is believed to be the single largest reason why individuals with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder do not take their medications."

It's nothing to do with the horrendous side effects and chemical cosh effect of these meds when given in excessive dosages then? I'm well aware that my thinking is awry without meds and whether this is because I've developed a dependancy on them or it is inherent to the biology is secondary to the awareness. When I was younger and a revolving door patient, non-compliant with meds, it was because I was given far too great a dosage and they were making me feel worse than any pyschosis ever did. Also I did not have, and still don't have after all these years, any continuity of care outside of my notes which makes it all but impossible to discuss my meds in credible way with the white coats. Give me a soft cell and the madness in preference to a exceissive dosage of some of these global dampening meds any day....that is insight.

[ramboself]

Just been teling my girlfriend i'm going to the disability centre, she says your not disabled, we're not disabled, somewhere in the background is some guy who encoraged her to come of meds and if i come anywhere near him i'll teach him what the word mental illness means

[sweetpea]

I phoned the hospital at the weekend and my brother has asked the nurses not to put through my calls anymore (at least for now anyway) - he doesn't want to speak to me after I challenged him on Friday and questioned why he was in a psychiatric unit if he didn't have m/h issues (which I know was not really the most sensible thing to do).

I feel sad he doesn't want to speak with me - I'd like to try to be there for him while he's in hospital. But I have to respect his wishes and not call for the time being.

I feel bad about Friday but I've also been thinking, you know what, I sometimes need to be able to just speak my mind with him - to speak honestly and say what i really think. The vast majority of the time I feel we have to bite our tongue and not challenge him, and even at times walk on eggshells to make sure we don't say anything that will upset him or cause him to flair up.

I do want to learn how to respond better to him, but god, I'm only human, and I need to speak my mind sometimes. At least while he's in hospital I know he's in a safe place for me to speak the truth - even if in the long run it does no good and he doesn't believe what I'm saying anyway.

Does anyone else have a sibling who denies their illness? I'm waiting for the book firemonkey recommended, which I'm hoping will help me understand and deal with his denial better. But in the meantime, I wondered if anyone else was in a similar situation? And if so, how do you cope with it?

[manic666]

i can only speak of someone who was in denile me. Your not going to get many answers as we are sufferer,s not in the position you are we are in your brother,s. I thought i was just a risk taker who got down inbetween high,s. i didnt no i was getting higher than everyone around me, but i was aware of the downer side they didnt have. You dont think its an illness though until the high, get shorter an the low,s longer , an your head isnt working right an you start to hide yourself away , or abuse drink or drugs to combat the feeling,s . In a cronic depressive or bipolar person you do become aware something is wrong finally, an seek help. But its not so easy for schizophrenic,s they seem in denile longer, an sometime always.I hope that helps you see inside our mind,s a little , but dont forget we dont no what an when anything will
happen.

[ramboself]

it's easy to deny mental illness doesn't exist when the majority of people are on meds that cover up the symptoms, if anything thats an argument about how effective the meds are, disabilkity is epilepsy and diabetes a disability, the anti mental illness lot like to use wheelchairs

My opinion is certain people don't seem to realise how they're arguments can encourage people to come of meds, then even the police can't properly relate to whats going on and call it a domestic

[I am an Aardvark]

ramboself, on 05 December 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:

it's easy to deny mental illness doesn't exist when the majority of people are on meds that cover up the symptoms,

Where is the evidence/proof/research that long term use of psychiatric drugs helps people & improves their conditions?

Perhaps you could link me to all the long term research/studies?

Thanks.

http://www.madinamer...20Epidemic.html