[Nellie1976]

Hello,

I've just joined and I am so pleased I found this site because I have been looking for advice for our family as my younger brother (now 32. I'm 35) has suffered from Depression ( and a bit agrophobia + anxiety) for over 10 years and to put it bluntly it makes me so angry. It is a long and complicated story (so sorry in advance) and I feel bad that I feel like that but I can't help it. At first I tried to help but I don't think I was the greatest of help ( I have suffered from anxiety but I am still very much from the school of come on we can fix it, get on with it!). I just want him to get on with his life. He puts so much pressure on my parents he doesn't realise it- you can't say anything because he is so oversensitive, a hyperchondriac (I know you are probably thinking 'well he suffers from depression.....' but if I had my period he would have a stomach tumour!! He mimics every illness and will only listen to the doctors and never us. He has a huge chip on his shoulder about our whole family, but we have both been given everything our parents could ever give us), extremely lazy, hysterical, knows more about benefits than working, rude, doesn't try at all and expects everything to be done for him. My parents are lovely and would do anything for us but are passive agressive. They never confront things head on. It drives me nuts and makes me sad at the same time. My parents have 'overly wrapped us in cotton wool' - it's lovely that they love us so much, but it also is massively suffocating. My mum runs everything including running a business in her 70's to keep the family together since my Dad had a stroke 5 years ago (he is also very angry with the world and I can't have a direct conversation with him - he doesn't see the similarities between him and my brother. They sound like clones of each other). I am really worried about my mum having to keep everything going - they need to be allowed to retire but my brother will not move on(even though he has had counselling), he doesn't even pick up the phone to his best friend, seems to live at night (keeping everyone awake),eats the oddest things (because he thinks- fish and chips won't effect his sensitive stomach???? has he thought of the 10 + years he has been on anti-depression medication and the load of parcetalom he gobbles?? But he won't be told). The troubles is I know he can be very kind, clever and considerate- but it is extremely rare and you have to tell him what to do constantly. I just want to scream at him becuase he has become so unbelievably selfish. But its gone on for so long it is easier to ignore him. He lives like a ghost in his room playing his computer all day. I don't know what to do? Any help would be appreciate- sorry for typing so much! Nellie xx

[mias]

Just wanted to say hi Nellie. Going to get back to this one when I can get to laptop.

Whilst I am here (from mob) hi and welcome.

[ChrisB]

Hi Nellie, welcome

Your brother seems extremely lonely to me and I guess he has learnt over the years that illness (real or ficticious) brings some attention and warmth, some caring interaction. because of this hes become needy and competetive, having to have the worst condition etc.

Certainly his patterns of existence arent helping him or your parents but no amount of "pack it in" or "pull yourself together" is likely to change this - change has to come from him. In fact your anger is giving him attention and shows that you care about him - no one gets angry with something that they don't care about - so even by having a go at him, in some ways his own needs are being met and his behaviour reinforced.

Becoming reclusive is a very hard habit to break, does he have any hobbies? Is he still in touch with the mental health services?.............the big question......"does he want to change?"

[Nellie1976]

mias, on 24 September 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

Just wanted to say hi Nellie. Going to get back to this one when I can get to laptop.

Whilst I am here (from mob) hi and welcome.

Hello! And thank you- it is nice to hear from you. I've seen some of your other response. You are very supportive, chekc in when you can

ChrisB, on 24 September 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

Hi Nellie, welcome

Your brother seems extremely lonely to me and I guess he has learnt over the years that illness (real or ficticious) brings some attention and warmth, some caring interaction. because of this hes become needy and competetive, having to have the worst condition etc.

Certainly his patterns of existence arent helping him or your parents but no amount of "pack it in" or "pull yourself together" is likely to change this - change has to come from him. In fact your anger is giving him attention and shows that you care about him - no one gets angry with something that they don't care about - so even by having a go at him, in some ways his own needs are being met and his behaviour reinforced.

Becoming reclusive is a very hard habit to break, does he have any hobbies? Is he still in touch with the mental health services?.............the big question......"does he want to change?"

[Nellie1976]

Nellie1976, on 24 September 2011 - 07:13 PM, said:

Hello Mias! And thank you- it is nice to hear from you. I've seen some of your other response. You are very supportive, chekc in when you can

Hello Chris B! Thank you for your response- really, really helpful. You've asked some good questions, which have made me think more- I do on some levels realise/think it is attention seeking. He is the youngest, so the baby- he used to get alot of attention when he was younger as he was 'over hyperactive' due to being allergic to E numbers etc, etc + extremely dyslexic + he used to be soo accident prone it was unbelievable. Its a sweeping statement but I do consider him to be emotionally stunted- he seems to be stuck in some 'kevin + perry' phase where mood swings, doorslamming and being stroppy and agressive is the only way he can get his point across. So it may be that he has just continued to think he should initiate the same level of attention. My parents have always been very high achievers , which means in certain instances they expect a lot from both of us - I have had problems with my father not being very understanding when it comes to career choices. We've had to deal with a lot of 'when I was your age I was doing...'. He still doesn't get that I am an artist so the fact that my brother is doing nothing means my Dad slags him off alot behind his back... I mean we all get frustrated but I wish my Dad would just take charge of the situation(even though he has had a stroke you would not know it- he just loves wallowing) but my brother thinks he is the best thing ever and doesn't realise that all the negativity is probably one of the most destructive things in the whole situation.
my brother is still seeing a counsellor and keeps saying 'the change has to come from him', but he does nothing. I think fear and low confidence is a major issue and I really try and be positive.. saying I am proud of him when he does somthing...which is hardly ever...so I hardly get to say it... and I arrange things for him to do and look forward to ...but still nothing. So what can we do? leave him? He'll just end up in a hostel (I work with young offenders as an art tutor- so I have way too much of an understanding of what this can be like) and at the end of the day he is incredibly nieve and gets very hurt very quickly.
...And no I don't think he wants to change... efectively he has no idea about the real world (even though he has had some jobs) because he has never moved out. Sorry to have talked so much and thank you again. Nellie x

Sorry haven't got used to the whole replying thing yet!

[ChrisB]

Hey Nellie, you havent talked too much and its so cool that he has you to be bothered about him!

The more depressed I became the more reclusive I became, and actually it was my wife who persuaded my care coordinator to set up some occupational therapy sessions.

So now I go to a workshop session and an art session, and already i have impressed myself - and thats the key - i know at first I looked to everyone and anyone to tell me i was doing well - but actually its only our own voice that matters, the rest is pretty hollow.

Is the counsellor managed by the GP? If so maybe there are other services which could link with his interests and get him socially involved?

Oh I forgot to say - the family bought me a dog so that I had a responsibility, a reason to get up and out - not suggesting that works for everyone but its an idea maybe??

Could he be autistic or have aspergers?

[mld]

Hi Nellie, just wanted to say a hello. I am probably too much like your brother in some ways! to add any help. But I do go out every day to organised groups/classes.

May add a bit more later on.

M

[Nellie1976]

ChrisB, on 24 September 2011 - 07:44 PM, said:

Hey Nellie, you havent talked too much and its so cool that he has you to be bothered about him!

The more depressed I became the more reclusive I became, and actually it was my wife who persuaded my care coordinator to set up some occupational therapy sessions.

So now I go to a workshop session and an art session, and already i have impressed myself - and thats the key - i know at first I looked to everyone and anyone to tell me i was doing well - but actually its only our own voice that matters, the rest is pretty hollow.

Is the counsellor managed by the GP? If so maybe there are other services which could link with his interests and get him socially involved?

Oh I forgot to say - the family bought me a dog so that I had a responsibility, a reason to get up and out - not suggesting that works for everyone but its an idea maybe??

Could he be autistic or have aspergers?

Hi Chris! Thank you- it does feel like I am being so horrid to him sometimes (we had a mexican standoff about 40 mins ago) and I would currently like to shake him. The funny thing is he started with this new Therapist (via the NHS, after being on a waiting list for months and months due to being signed off) and he did start walking the our dogs (our family pets) but it only lasted for 2 weeks but he has stopped again - I was so pleased when he started getting out and about. He just doesn't stick with it. He is also very secretiative about everything, so we know nothing about any additonal care. He was doing Sure Start, but havn't heard him discuss anything for the last 5-6 weeks. I love to teach him art via some of the exercises I use but as he's my brother........ + I've asked him to my exhibitions, out with my friends, my mum has tried to get him involved with the business( she can be extremely pushy though- so I do understand that somethings he hids- cos I do the same LOL, I still help and do love her to pieces- I just stand my ground with her instead! But she is only trying to help. His main outlet for everything is his computer and he spends hours on there- i.e chat rooms. His friends havn't been round for agaes. The weird thing I spoke to his best friend today and he said he is not picking the phone up to him and he has tried to get him out- but I know he's lying to him. My brother will loose evryone at this rate! I don't know if he has a care co-ordinator - i'd be interested to find out how to get one for him? Is it out of order for me to go to the doctor to discuss the matter on my brothers behalf? Nellie x

[ChrisB]

Nellie1976, on 24 September 2011 - 09:09 PM, said:

Is it out of order for me to go to the doctor to discuss the matter on my brothers behalf? Nellie x

Its not out of order but depending on the GP you might get a big fat "patient confidentiality " speech..

When I called my GP about my mun we chatted, but when my daughter called the GP about me - she refused to talk.......... gotta be worth a go!

Sticking my neck out here - I firmly believe that everyone and I mean everyone has a gift, a hidden ability, may be poetry, art, gardening, something everyone has a gift - find it and nurture it and you will be amazed......... wow I made that sound really simple.....sorry!

[Nellie1976]

mld, on 24 September 2011 - 07:48 PM, said:

Hi Nellie, just wanted to say a hello. I am probably too much like your brother in some ways! to add any help. But I do go out every day to organised groups/classes.

May add a bit more later on.

M

Hello M, thank you for saying hello. I really like that you are getting out and about. I think being outside and seeing what else is going on and others are doing is so motivational! It pulls me forwards and clears my head. The weird thing is I have become a total fresh air freak the older I've got! Wish I realised that when I was a teenager!

Look forward to hearing from you- anything you could add I would be really pleased to hear- especially if you can shed light onto my brothers way of thinking.

Nellie x

[ChrisB]

Nellie, I like you already, your brother is lucky to have you in his corner

[Nellie1976]

ChrisB, on 24 September 2011 - 08:12 PM, said:

Its not out of order but depending on the GP you might get a big fat "patient confidentiality " speech..

When I called my GP about my mun we chatted, but when my daughter called the GP about me - she refused to talk.......... gotta be worth a go!

Sticking my neck out here - I firmly believe that everyone and I mean everyone has a gift, a hidden ability, may be poetry, art, gardening, something everyone has a gift - find it and nurture it and you will be amazed......... wow I made that sound really simple.....sorry!

Ok, that's really good to know. I will try- although my parents have paid for treatment for him I don't think they approached the doctor directly. I'll let you know how it goes because I have always wondered if he has been truely and brutally honest (I've had counselling and the more honest I was the more I got out) about his symptons with the DR as he hids everything from us.

I completely agree and I truely believe there is something in everyone and he is great with computers but rarily shows us- he was really helpful sorting my computer though and I made sure I got him some of his favourite sushi as a thank you- just wish he did more for himself. But I will try to get to see the DR this week.

Thanks again- you've been so helpful! Nellie x

[ChrisB]

Call me cynical but a paid therapist.....hmm whats the incentive to end the work??

[Nellie1976]

ChrisB, on 24 September 2011 - 08:16 PM, said:

Nellie, I like you already, your brother is lucky to have you in his corner

Thank you! He may not agree. But I am really pleased you're on here - great advice + good questions. You've made me think of some steps I can help with although ultimately it will be up to him! Nellie x

[ChrisB]

Nellie, I am sure others will say the same but please let us know how things go on.

Also, ask the GP about support for carers, you might find thats a way to access services to help you both??

[Nellie1976]

ChrisB, on 24 September 2011 - 08:29 PM, said:

Call me cynical but a paid therapist.....hmm whats the incentive to end the work??

Well its always been a stop and start thing... my parents income as been up and down for years due to my Dads stroke.. so they could only afford so much and my brother went through a stage of asking 'where the Bupa cover was' (???). So my parents stopped.

[Nellie1976]

ChrisB, on 24 September 2011 - 08:34 PM, said:

Nellie, I am sure others will say the same but please let us know how things go on.

Also, ask the GP about support for carers, you might find thats a way to access services to help you both??

Yes, I promise to - like I said everyone has been great on here! I didn't think we could get that much support, I don't really think of ourselves as carers- he is functioning but doesn't do anything- but I will look in to it. Something has got to change. Nellie x

[mias]

Nellie1976, on 24 September 2011 - 09:40 PM, said:

Yes, I promise to - like I said everyone has been great on here! I didn't think we could get that much support, I don't really think of ourselves as carers- he is functioning but doesn't do anything- but I will look in to it. Something has got to change. Nellie x

Hello Nellie,

Have been reading the replies here and I honestly think they are so good there is not much for me to add. I do hope they help you, as you must be feeling as though you don't know where to turn. Obviously right now nothing is helping and I bet you can't see any way this situation will improve and you are scared it will get even worse. Much of this really reminds me of how my family were with my brother although he was not living at home but with his partner so of course we do not know exactly what it was like for her over the years not until things really got out of hand and he became extremely unwell.

The good thing is, you have found here and there will be people that can advise you. Have you tried the Rethink staff? Not everything will work but just the knowing that there are people out there that honestly do care and will do their best to point you in he right direction will help. It certainly would have helped us. I can remember knowing that Mum Dad and his partner were just floundering about all trying to do something but getting into a dreadful muddle as well as not coping and really needing support themselves.

I agree that no one really changes unless they want to change themselves. Maybe don't push him too hard, people tend to become very hard to budge when pushed.

Just a thought, how about asking him for help so that it isn't about him for a change? Could be worth a try.

Have a good Sunday whatever you are doing and I look forward to your updates.

[Olivia - Rethink]

Hi Nellie,

Chris and Mias have already given you some great advice, and it sounds like you have thought around the issues yourself a lot too, and tried many different approaches. It can be really tough when you feel like things are not working, but as Chris said, your brother is lucky to have such a caring sister and there are many things he will need to do for himself.

If you do want to find out more about what kind of help is available - and who you can contact - our advice and information service should be able to help. They can tell you about the different support that is available, as well as look at confidentiality issues, as these often come into play when talking to GPs.

You can contact our Advice and Information Service by phone or email.
Tel: 0300 5000 927 (Mon - Fri, 10am - 1pm)
Email: advice@rethink.org

You can also find factsheets for siblings on a range of issues on our sibling website.

Best wishes,

Olivia

[Curlymop]

I too am having problems with my brother and need help.