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Hi Rufus,
It is about 100 years since schizophrenia was first used by the medical profession and there is a lot of debate about dropping this term; do you have any thoughts about this? Are we trying to put label on quite a broad range of conditions?
Peer - Rethink
Rufus May: The Doctor Who Hears Voices Live Webchat 29th July at 1pm
#41
Peer - Rethink 
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:43 PM
MultiQuote#42 Guest_Rufus May_*
Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:44 PM
Abi - Rethink, on 28 July 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:
Hi Rufus,
I was really interested to hear your quote which said that we must "learn to accept voice hearing because the fear of voices makes it a lot more difficult to handle."
I don't hear voices, but I work with, and know people who do. Could you describe what it's like to hear voices for those who haven't experienced this, and give advice about how we can overcome any fears about voice hearing?
Thanks,
Abigail
I was really interested to hear your quote which said that we must "learn to accept voice hearing because the fear of voices makes it a lot more difficult to handle."
I don't hear voices, but I work with, and know people who do. Could you describe what it's like to hear voices for those who haven't experienced this, and give advice about how we can overcome any fears about voice hearing?
Thanks,
Abigail
They're as loud as human voices, and often can have their own personalities and agendas. I'd recommend the Doctor Who Hears Voices on Channel 4 OD.
Also, ask the people you work with and know who hear voices what it's like. Each person's experience is slightly different, and each voice can differ in terms of gender, how old it sounds, the values it espouses. I've come across a lot of domineering, critical authoritarian voices and helped people to stand up to them and believe in themselves again.
I do this in groups, in individual meetings. Groups are good because we get a lot of confidence from meeting people with similar experiences. Britain leads the world in terms of numbers of hearing voices groups. To set up a Hearing voices group, contact the Hearing Voices Network.
#43
mysticmeg
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:44 PM
Hi rufus
I have your blog/wbsite for a while now. I enjoy most of it.
I have a Dr with bi polar disorder and he is a great doctor.
I can ride with the thoughts and often try stimulants like art etc to over ride thoughts but it is when they are there all of the time which is the most traumatic.
I couldn't make a cup of tea let alone yoga.
I search for things all of the time to counteract the thoughts. I try to see other viewpoints but they get so clouded. How can we see through the blur ?
The thoughts are voices but I have always been told they are my thoughts and that I can contol them but I hear them outside and they are cruel so cruel
I have your blog/wbsite for a while now. I enjoy most of it.
I have a Dr with bi polar disorder and he is a great doctor.
I can ride with the thoughts and often try stimulants like art etc to over ride thoughts but it is when they are there all of the time which is the most traumatic.
I couldn't make a cup of tea let alone yoga.
I search for things all of the time to counteract the thoughts. I try to see other viewpoints but they get so clouded. How can we see through the blur ?
The thoughts are voices but I have always been told they are my thoughts and that I can contol them but I hear them outside and they are cruel so cruel
#44 Guest_Rufus May_*
Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:49 PM
ramboself, on 28 July 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:
Rufus could you define 'normal' and define 'mental illness'.
When we say am I 'normal'? we often mean - am I acceptable? Normal is taken to mean acceptable.
I think it's normal to be different, and that we need to learn to celebrate diversity rather than wishing we were average. I'm not sure if being normal is actually healthy. KrishnaMurti asked the question 'how healthy is it to be well adapted to a sick society?' I see being healthy as when we are able to be part of healthy communities, ones that listen to each other, offer mutual support, are fair and encourage equality, but also individual expression.
#45 Guest_Rufus May_*
Posted 29 July 2011 - 12:53 PM
Sianness85, on 29 July 2011 - 09:13 AM, said:
Do you think that "compulsive thoughts" that tell you to do things and "Voices" are the same thing. I'm trying to relate my experience to other people's or medical talk.
Thanks
Thanks
Intrusive thoughts and voice hearing have a lot in common but voice hearing feels distinctly like someone else is generating the discourse. A nice way to deal with these experiences is to accept them or welcome them rather than wish they weren't there. If we are friendly and acknowledging but don't allow ourselves to be bossed around by these thoughts or voices, this offers us a nice middle way to deal with these experiences.
#46 Guest_Rufus May_*
Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:02 PM
mysticmeg, on 29 July 2011 - 12:44 PM, said:
Hi rufus
I have your blog/wbsite for a while now. I enjoy most of it.
I search for things all of the time to counteract the thoughts. I try to see other viewpoints but they get so clouded. How can we see through the blur ?
I have your blog/wbsite for a while now. I enjoy most of it.
I search for things all of the time to counteract the thoughts. I try to see other viewpoints but they get so clouded. How can we see through the blur ?
I think we need to find ways to become grounded and centred, and then we can have greater clarity of perception.
I recommend physical exercise as a way to clear the mental fog. Martial Arts are good, running, yoga, dance, boxing, other intense physical exercise helps to clear the head. When we're really in our bodies, it's easier to let go of our thoughts. Mindfulness exercises are also recommended. You can try the breathworks website and get some headspace and some clarity of our perceptions.
#47
Duck
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:04 PM
I've been to some of your workshops, and to Intervoice last year, and found them helpful.
I don't like being told to be polite to my voices though.
It feels like being back at school and told to 'just ignore' bullies.
Why *should* I be nice to them, when they are being vile?
I don't like being told to be polite to my voices though.
It feels like being back at school and told to 'just ignore' bullies.
Why *should* I be nice to them, when they are being vile?
#48 Guest_Rufus May_*
Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:11 PM
Peer - Rethink, on 29 July 2011 - 12:43 PM, said:
Hi Rufus,
It is about 100 years since schizophrenia was first used by the medical profession and there is a lot of debate about dropping this term; do you have any thoughts about this? Are we trying to put label on quite a broad range of conditions?
Peer - Rethink
It is about 100 years since schizophrenia was first used by the medical profession and there is a lot of debate about dropping this term; do you have any thoughts about this? Are we trying to put label on quite a broad range of conditions?
Peer - Rethink
I'd call them experiences rather than conditions, but I'd like to stop using phsychiatric diagnoses in general, but specifically diagnosis of sz stops people being curious about the meaning of their experiences. I think people's voice hearing and delusional belief systems are meaningful responses to stress. I think it's more helpful to use psychological concepts like dissociation to understand how people's minds deal with emotional pain. In Japan, they have stopped using the term Schizophrenia and now use the term Integration Disorder. It's an improvement, but I think we can stop talking about people as disordered and start talking about them in more respectful ways.
Diagnosis of schizophrenia carries with it a lot of assumptions about brain disease and poor outcomes that can create a lot of fear and be very demoralising.
#50
Duck
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:13 PM
Why are you so opposed to using meds?
I've spent years doing all sorts of 'talking therapies', feel that I've sorted out my long-term issues, but I still choose to use meds. I'm about as well informed on meds as it's possible to be, with a psychology degree, and it's my choice that meds are a useful tool and I expect to be on them for at least the next few years.
When I was at Intervoice in Nottingham there was an awful talk by a woman who attributed her son's death to psych meds, and she spent about half an hour reading a long poem describing his funeral. I don't feel that this helped me make a well-informed choice for myself.
I feel that in the Hearing Voices Movement being off meds is used as a symbol of 'recovery' in the same way that being in paid work (even if you are barely coping in a crap job you hate) is used within mainstream NHS services, and that both are hiacking the concept of recovery as living a life that is meaningful *to me*, and making my own choices.
I've spent years doing all sorts of 'talking therapies', feel that I've sorted out my long-term issues, but I still choose to use meds. I'm about as well informed on meds as it's possible to be, with a psychology degree, and it's my choice that meds are a useful tool and I expect to be on them for at least the next few years.
When I was at Intervoice in Nottingham there was an awful talk by a woman who attributed her son's death to psych meds, and she spent about half an hour reading a long poem describing his funeral. I don't feel that this helped me make a well-informed choice for myself.
I feel that in the Hearing Voices Movement being off meds is used as a symbol of 'recovery' in the same way that being in paid work (even if you are barely coping in a crap job you hate) is used within mainstream NHS services, and that both are hiacking the concept of recovery as living a life that is meaningful *to me*, and making my own choices.
#51 Guest_Rufus May_*
Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:20 PM
Duck, on 29 July 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:
I've been to some of your workshops, and to Intervoice last year, and found them helpful.
I don't like being told to be polite to my voices though.
It feels like being back at school and told to 'just ignore' bullies.
Why *should* I be nice to them, when they are being vile?
I don't like being told to be polite to my voices though.
It feels like being back at school and told to 'just ignore' bullies.
Why *should* I be nice to them, when they are being vile?
Hi Duck,
We do need to challenge voices, but doing it aggressively often makes the voices more aggressive. We've got to live with these experiences and if we can model a respectful way of engaging, voices can often start to respect you back.
What I'm suggesting is setting firm boundaries with the voices, but at the same time, voices are symbolising our need to get over the impact of being bullied. It will be really helpful to role play standing up to original bullies, or writing them a letter, confronting the bullies.
Bullying voices are messengers that we need to rebuild our self-confidence. Hating the voices won't help us deal with them. They are difficult messengers about emotional work we need to do. Let's not shoot the messenger. Instead, channel your anger into finding ways to express your truths and your unique qualities. Don't let the voices hold you back, don't get into endless fights with them.
Parts of our mind that terrify us the most, need the most love.
#52
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:21 PM
Unfortunately time is up for this afternoon; thanks everyone who asked questions and thanks to Rufus for coming in to talk to us. Rufus is happy to answer any questions we could not cover today and these can be sent to us via our email: online.team@rethink.org
#53
TheLProfile
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:21 PM
Hi Rufus
Thank you for doing this webchat with Rethink Mental Illness and us all online.
I am a huge believer in Peer Support, how can we advance the expertise with in formal ward settings?
We need Peer Support Officers to be funded!
All best wishes
Thank you for doing this webchat with Rethink Mental Illness and us all online.
I am a huge believer in Peer Support, how can we advance the expertise with in formal ward settings?
We need Peer Support Officers to be funded!
All best wishes
#56
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:25 PM
Remember you can follow Rethink online via:
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/rethink_
Facebook: http://ww.facebook.com/rethinkcharity
Thanks everyone for joining us.
Abi & Peer – Rethink.
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/rethink_
Facebook: http://ww.facebook.com/rethinkcharity
Thanks everyone for joining us.
Abi & Peer – Rethink.
#58 Guest_Rufus May_*
Posted 29 July 2011 - 01:29 PM
Duck, on 29 July 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:
Why are you so opposed to using meds?
A quick response to this:
I'm not opposed to using meds - if it works for you, that's great. I just think people need more choices about ways to deal with their thoughts and feel that we use medication far too much as an alternative to try to understand experiences.
There are health risks with long-term drug use, so if it were my son or daughter, I'd like them to find other ways to manage in the long term, but I respect the different ways to manage, I just want people to have more choices.
#59
ramboself
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:05 PM
I agree more choices, but we're in the midle of a massive financial crisis, i'm beginning to feel grateful for just meaLs and a roof over my head, might be nice if the offf drug alternative was funded as far as posssible
When my dad was dying i saw a programme were this inner city gp said rather than funding expensive surgery which keeps someone alive for a few years at most she'd tackle poverty, i'd think about that when i saw my dad on this highly staffed ward costing a fortune
When my dad was dying i saw a programme were this inner city gp said rather than funding expensive surgery which keeps someone alive for a few years at most she'd tackle poverty, i'd think about that when i saw my dad on this highly staffed ward costing a fortune
#60
Spartikus Rex
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Posted 29 July 2011 - 02:48 PM
I've been in Louth all day but it looks like there's some positive stuff here. 
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." - George Orwell.
