[Peer - Rethink]

Live webchat with Rufus May

Rufus May will be joining us live for a webchat on RethinkTalk, this Friday 29th July at 1pm. If you would like to ask him a question then please leave these in the comments section below. Please remember the webchat guidelines.

Quote

'Voices are messengers that need to be listened to'

Rufus May works as a psychologist and is known for his positive therapeutic approach to psychosis and voice-hearing. He believes hearing voices is a meaningful experience that we should be listening to more. He thinks we should be teaching people a broad range of self development and expressive techniques so they can handle the emotions that drive their experiences. 'Its a crime how much we rely on mind suppressing drugs rather than more holistic strategies. The drugs so often add to people's problems causing weight gain, serious health difficulties and passivity' He believes psychiatric medication is over-used as a substitute for really listening to people's experiences. 'Voices are symbolic messengers about relationship issues we need to understand and overcome.'

Rufus uses techniques developed in conjunction with other members of the hearing voices network which include talking to people's voices. 'Talking with voices has been shown to be helpful yet many professionals discourage it and are scared to do this kind of work. Even the most destructive voice can be understood and reasoned with. Demonic sounding voices are a response to buried emotions and with support can be faced so they no longer are able to bully and intimidate the person hearing them. A voice that urges you to harm yourself is a symbolic messenger about the need for you to find ways to channel your aggression and hurt feelings. The parts of us that are the most destructive need the most love. Most doctors try to get rid of voices and this often makes things worse because the voices get more aggravated.

They are there for a reason and their messages need to be faced not buried. Society is scared of hearing voices but we need to learn to accept voice hearing because the fear of voices makes it a lot more difficult to handle.'

You can also read more about Rufus May's work on his website at www.rufusmay.com or read an indepth article that was published in the Independent via http://ind.pn/Mgtm6

[I am an Aardvark]

Hi Rufus - it's great that you are going to be here for a live chat; & I am a great fan of your work.

We need far more in the way of these approaches & more therapeutic, healing & compassionate approaches to mental health.

As to my own history - I've been through 7 major episodes of severe 'psychosis' - each lasting a few months to a year; I was hospitalised 4 times, & was in addiction for 17 years,

For close to 10 years now I have been in T-Total recovery; & try as much as possible to focus on healing & recovery. My experiences were more to do with complex 'delusional' worlds & visions; although I have also heard voices as well; but not a great deal.

I have been dependant on a psychiatric drug for 13 years - which I have tried stopping 3 times with disastrous consequences. A lot of this I feel has been withdrawal effects. But I feel very dependant on this medication - 200mg Amisulpride.

Is there anything that you'd suggest in my own situation? I maintain taking this neuroleptic drug at this dose; as it seems to keep me on a level & able to function to a degree; without going into severe psychosis. But I have struggled greatly with taking it; & ideally I'd love to be successfully medication free; if that is possible.

I am aware of many approaches & comprehensive psychological & social support approaches. The problem that I have found is the great difficult is accessing these approaches. I am in contact with a psychologist & an alternative healer; who are helping a great deal with things. but in regards to the ideal of successfully becoming medication free - I feel that I would need comprehensive help & support; & possibly residential care from people experienced in such approaches; & this simply does not appear to exist in the UK.

So much of the UK MH system & the general mainstream culture appears to be a lot of ignorance & fear around these experiences; & as having the general reaction & attitude of labelling & drugging people expereincing these things. It is so hard to find the appropriate support & help if you don't want to be treated in this way. It can be very frustrating - & more holistic, psychological & 'alternative' approaches are complicated by the actions & reactions of mainstream society & the MH system.

These are the circumstances that I find myself in - in trying to balance independent living, with wellness, & as what to do for best in regards to moving on as best as possible from the past & history that I've had - In finding ways to resolve & cope with my 'condition' & what I have experienced as best a possible; with what resources are available.

Any ideas would be much appreciated. Thanks for listening.

[DeletedMember]

Dear Rufus,

I have been deeply inspired by your humanistic approach and attitude to psychology. You are as brave as the people you help. I tend to struggle for words these days, so for now - just my heartfelt thanks.

Ditko

[ebonycat]

Ditko, on 26 July 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

Dear Rufus,

I have been deeply inspired by your humanistic approach and attitude to psychology. You are as brave as the people you help. I tend to struggle for words these days, so for now - just my heartfelt thanks.

Ditko

Rufus makes up interesting stories to give the unknown some meaning but knows little about the subject of the psychosis, it is what it is some prefer a nice story to a tablet but the truth is no one really knows what psychosis is. A voice is just that a voice and shouldnt be listened to if there is no one there a Demon is just that a demon in my complex internal construction Demons can exist because I believe in God not some emotional mumbo jumbo
That relates everything back to a disturbed childhood, move on the past is behind you.Rufus is just a story teller placating the children who have knightmares, maybe we should grow up now.

[ramboself]

Rufus some use you as an example of recoverey, what do you make of recovery been used to justify benefit cuts and care cuts, particularly when that so called recovery been pushed is not a totally fit for work scenario

[Universal Credit]

Rufus, your cool. If there's a heavan you'll be first in line.

Time of austerity and lost benefits, you know whether the 'real shrinks' gotta final solution in line for our condition again?

[DeletedMember]

ebonycat, on 26 July 2011 - 06:42 PM, said:

Demons can exist because I believe in God not some emotional mumbo jumbo

Good one.

[firemonkey]

The worst demons are the ones our mind creates for us. It is hard to escape from the thoughts that haunt you.They are a dogged and unrelenting foe.

[I am an Aardvark]

ebonycat, on 26 July 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

a Demon is just that a demon in my complex internal construction Demons can exist because I believe in God not some emotional mumbo jumbo

Feeding them crisps helps.

Have you seen an exorcist?

[Universal Credit]

I keep my demons at the bottom of the bottle. I'm not a spirits person but I admire those with the 'wuz in the head' to believe such things. Now there is a curious edge to my atheism in that I do believe in higher dimensions and other 'alien to the norm' things but given the amount of evil done in the various Gods names - I'm gonna say that earthly religion is a pure human construct. Look at the Christian gunman we had this week? they are gonna say he's insane(furthering our stigma) but he was doing Gods will, just like Christians used to enslave black people and burn old biddies at the stake.

[ebonycat]

Falling Down, on 27 July 2011 - 05:54 AM, said:

I keep my demons at the bottom of the bottle. I'm not a spirits person but I admire those with the 'wuz in the head' to believe such things. Now there is a curious edge to my atheism in that I do believe in higher dimensions and other 'alien to the norm' things but given the amount of evil done in the various Gods names - I'm gonna say that earthly religion is a pure human construct. Look at the Christian gunman we had this week? they are gonna say he's insane(furthering our stigma) but he was doing Gods will, just like Christians used to enslave black people and burn old biddies at the stake.

The Norwegian Gun man had some relevant points but no outlet for discussion of those points. Immigration has become a problem in Europe and there are conflicting ideals in Muselm faith with a Christian faith but its more to do with other peoples invading cultural beleifs rather than religion. All these things are problems to do with Mass immigration and Equality laws being abused to support one group but not another doesnt help the situation.
There are situations where Burkhers should be banned in our society it could be abused to become involved in criminal behaviour, after all Bin Laden was said to hide in a Burkher.

[ebonycat]

If I can see demons are they not Demons after all a Chair is a Chair
you might laugh at my feeding them crisps Lotso but atleast I didnt sit in a corner screaming for mummy or put it down to being ill. I tested the boundaries of my so called psychosis and found that you can interact with the phenomenom.

[Universal Credit]

Spiegel seems to think delusion is no defence and I agree. Even when I've been very poorly I've never considered anything evil, and my organisational capacity drops when I'm ill.

http://www.spiegel.d...,776878,00.html

Is Delusion a Valid Defense?

Someone this malicious and repugnant can't possibly be normal . Someone who is clever enough to initially unsettle the capital with a bombing attack to lure the police to the site, only to appear on an island soon afterwards, disguised as a police officer, to kill innocent children and adolescents simply has to be insane. And if things had gone the way he had apparently planned, many more would have died. No -- this sort of person is not normal.


But the equation offered all too often in connection with inconceivably horrific events -- the more barbaric the crime, the more disturbed, insane and emotionally disturbed the perpetrator -- isn't as simple as it seems.

Anders Breivik may very well be deluded , someone who didn't fit in and went astray instead, someone who became lost in crude fantasies. But his cold-blooded brutality alone, which tempts us to consider him insane, does not necessarily prove that he is not culpable for what he did -- as his defense lawyer is attempting to argue.

Were that the case, Nazi thugs who massacred and drove millions of men, women and children into the gas chambers -- and, more importantly, those who dreamt up this lunacy and issued the orders -- would have been the innocent victims of their mental illness. Hitler, Stalin and the like -- history is full of people we call monsters, beasts or animals, because they seem to lack everything that makes us human. Napoleon and other famous war heroes, who drove their soldiers into senseless, brutal deaths, those responsible for the Massacre of the Innocents, the Crusaders, the Holy Inquisition, the witch burners, the suicide bombers of today, those who embark on killing sprees. No animal behaves quite the way human beings do from time to time.

(continued)

[ebonycat]

Falling Down, on 27 July 2011 - 10:30 AM, said:

Spiegel seems to think delusion is no defence and I agree. Even when I've been very poorly I've never considered anything evil, and my organisational capacity drops when I'm ill.

http://www.spiegel.d...,776878,00.html

Is Delusion a Valid Defense?

Someone this malicious and repugnant can't possibly be normal . Someone who is clever enough to initially unsettle the capital with a bombing attack to lure the police to the site, only to appear on an island soon afterwards, disguised as a police officer, to kill innocent children and adolescents simply has to be insane. And if things had gone the way he had apparently planned, many more would have died. No -- this sort of person is not normal.


But the equation offered all too often in connection with inconceivably horrific events -- the more barbaric the crime, the more disturbed, insane and emotionally disturbed the perpetrator -- isn't as simple as it seems.

Anders Breivik may very well be deluded , someone who didn't fit in and went astray instead, someone who became lost in crude fantasies. But his cold-blooded brutality alone, which tempts us to consider him insane, does not necessarily prove that he is not culpable for what he did -- as his defense lawyer is attempting to argue.

Were that the case, Nazi thugs who massacred and drove millions of men, women and children into the gas chambers -- and, more importantly, those who dreamt up this lunacy and issued the orders -- would have been the innocent victims of their mental illness. Hitler, Stalin and the like -- history is full of people we call monsters, beasts or animals, because they seem to lack everything that makes us human. Napoleon and other famous war heroes, who drove their soldiers into senseless, brutal deaths, those responsible for the Massacre of the Innocents, the Crusaders, the Holy Inquisition, the witch burners, the suicide bombers of today, those who embark on killing sprees. No animal behaves quite the way human beings do from time to time.

(continued)

[ebonycat]

There is a difference between being ill and acting in an evil way, even when I have been in deep psychosis I have never entertained the idea of harming someone else. The general Public are all too quick to write such behaviour of as an illness instead of the evil that it is.

Some people are just wicked simple as.

He knew it was wrong and told himself it was necessary what we should be asking was why he himself thought he had no voice and was powerless to change things without resorting to violence.

As a minority in Society Freedom of speach is paramount.

[Universal Credit]

ebonycat, on 27 July 2011 - 02:30 PM, said:

There is a difference between being ill and acting in an evil way, even when I have been in deep psychosis I have never entertained the idea of harming someone else. The general Public are all too quick to write such behaviour of as an illness instead of the evil that it is.

Some people are just wicked simple as.

He knew it was wrong and told himself it was necessary what we should be asking was why he himself thought he had no voice and was powerless to change things without resorting to violence.

As a minority in Society Freedom of speach is paramount.

I think it may have been a failing business venture that triggered his extremism, from what I've read. This is just like 'nazi germany' after the collapse of the weimer republic taking things out violently on the defenceless. It is in that regard a normal, even if obnoxious, reaction for some with a sense of status entitlement to 'kick the dog' after a failure. The central point is that it is ideology driven and the right wing are full of these kind of violent motifs.

[ebonycat]

Falling Down, on 27 July 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

I think it may have been a failing business venture that triggered his extremism, from what I've read. This is just like 'nazi germany' after the collapse of the weimer republic taking things out violently on the defenceless. It is in that regard a normal, even if obnoxious, reaction for some with a sense of status entitlement to 'kick the dog' after a failure. The central point is that it is ideology driven and the right wing are full of these kind of violent motifs.

Atleast he isnot saying that the voices told him to do it!
Wonder what Rufus would have put that down to?being bullied as a child and feeling powerless

perhaps He was just plain evil.

[keeping positive]

Hi Rufus,

I was wondering about 'hearing voices', my partner has started to hear these over the last 12 months after an evening of getting very drunk after abstaining from alcohol for 4 months after a detox, he claims god speaks to him and tells him of impending dangers and disasters and who the devil is and where his crown is. First of all I was the Devils queen and sat with him trying to get into my partner because he has god in him. Now he beleives I was telling the truth (i am deliberately missing something out here) and now his brother is the Devil as he has 616 in his documentation and 666 on his door number, apparently 666 in your house number, telelphone number etc means you are in league with the devil.

I have to say that he has been told by God on occasion to kill or hurt however my partner says that when he thought about this it was not God but the Devil telling him and he fought him and won because he didn't hurt anyone. He now states that he would never harm anyone all he has to do is say something and god does the rest, for those who are religious there is some truth in this according to the bible, however, I don't think one man on earth has the power to say "you will die tomorrow" and that person actually does!

Is it really possible to work with the voices in your mind and not let them affect you or pursuade you to do things you would never normally do?

[Universal Credit]

I've heard voice hearing is pretty common in the general population (10%?) but people don't like to say they hear voices because of the stigma. I'm wondering if when voice hearing is so common it is relavant to call it a symptom of Sz? or like the 'thud' experiment it is a trigger for diagnosis regardless of the mental health of the voice hearer? Have you any thoughts about this Rufus given your remarkable journey from patient to doctor?

[Abi M]

Hi Rufus,

I was really interested to hear your quote which said that we must "learn to accept voice hearing because the fear of voices makes it a lot more difficult to handle."

I don't hear voices, but I work with, and know people who do. Could you describe what it's like to hear voices for those who haven't experienced this, and give advice about how we can overcome any fears about voice hearing?

Thanks,
Abigail